The God’s Existence.. A Muslim-Atheist Dialogue


Participants
Muslim: Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui
Atheists : Rest all.
Following is the reproduction of the discussion that took place on Facebook from 23 November 2012 to 10th December 2012

  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui this post is about someone who says “God has been unsuccessful in marketing itself” and proven wrong.
  • Muhammad Azeem I will give you the reference.But the main purpose is to indicate that humanity is aware of such ideas about the powers of the universe.Even We are not discussing clay tablets of Sumerian civilization which have been translated now in Germany and the story of the creation of Adam on earth is revealed before the religious books of organized religions came into being.
  • Khalid Thathaal soon they would declare that “god particle” and “life on Mars” was told in some verse of quran.
  • Muhammad Azeem Hahaha.But someone should write post that there is no information in Q about life on Mars.
  • Khalid Thathaal One thing has to accept, these “koufar” understand quran better than us. They are quick to find useful informations from quran and utilize those for discoveries and inventins.
  • Nadeem Muaaz کفار اتنے بےوقوف نہیں ہیں کہ وہ قرآن سے عقل کشید کریں۔
  • Amjad Hussain Those who discovered God Particulars actually gave the name God Damn Particulars but publisher was not ready to publish.
  • Khalid Thathaal ندیم میاں، کچھ بھی ھو، جنَت میں تو ھم ھی جایں گے۔
  • Muhammad Azeem I am astonished that some friends attribute this theory to Dr Abdus Salam whereas it was presented by Higgs Boson of Uk in late fifties when dr sb were still in Pakistan and were not of that stature.When the experiment proved the theory a few months ago three hundred renowned scientists of the world gave him standing ovation in the control room of the laboratory.At this time his age is 89 .Dr Salam did work to prove this theory as some other did.
  • Khalid Thathaal doctor Abdus salam said that he got his inspiriration from Quran, while the other two who shared Nobel prize with him were hardcore athiest.
  • Muhammad Azeem The original theory was presented by Higgs and the scientists who worked for its experimental process had that credit.But if Dr Salam says this then there are so many thoughts and characters in
  • Muhammad Azeem greek mytholgy which have power and qualities of unify or disintegrate the universe.
  • Muhammad Azeem In Hindu Mythology war of Mahabharata is the greatest event in which one moment comes when Brahma Ban is fired by a character and the opponant also fires the same ban.This Ban is a weapon if exploded will destroy the universe.Another powerful character comes and puts his hand in between the two warheads and the universe is saved from destruction.
  • Khalid Thathaal I have also read Mahabharat, havn’t read about those ban ( shastar), but earlier there is mention of those shastar when karn appeared first time in the court where his other brother were showing their capablities. It is here karn challange Arjun to compete with him and it is here Kunti recognize that karn is first son from Suria devta.
  • Khalid Thathaal I mean havn’t read about their usage in kurkshetr. May be it is because i have read a shorter version.
  • Khalid Thathaal But my main purpose is to read mahabharat in detail. somemonth back I ordered Ramayan and Mahabharat in Urdu. Thosee book cost me around 100$ but the problem with those books were the langauge again. These books are written with urdu (shahmukhi) script but in fact these are shudh hindi books. I was so proud to beleive that I understand Hindi, but in case of these books, there are at least 10-15 words on every page which I don’t understood. I have been robbed by that book seller.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui or jub ap ye post share kar rahy hen to lashaoori tor par ap insaniat ki la ilmi ka aitraf kar rahy hen.. or la ilm insan khuda key na honey ki daleel kubhi naheen la sakta !.. sirf la ilm reh sakta ha.
  • Khalid Thathaal ????, Ammar, you are too philosophical, I have problem understanding you. Can you make it easy for an ignorant person like me.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui yes sure. just like the post is too philosophical, so was the answer.
  • Khalid Thathaal So how can we find some evidence for god’s existance.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Science is the doorway and ‘Big Bang Theory” is key to unlock the treasure of evidence.
  • Muhammad Azeem Some detail is available in drama serials produced by Doordarshan.Ramayan and Mahabharat scripts were written by knowledgeable Hindu writers.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Scientists from NASA tells us that they have verified the Univesal Expansion through precise calculations. They tells us that universe is composed of trillion of galaxies which are going further apart from every other galaxies. i.e. the universe is gradually expanding like a hot air baloon getting filled with air…
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui when they backtracked it to a point in past where the balloon was started, they found it out that it was just a sub atomic explosion which kept expanding and eventually formed our universe. Science confirms that when no time and space existed, there was some one by whose will the BIG BANG HAppened.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui imagine.. no time n space.. out of no where sub atomic particle is created in the emptyness of nothingness and it gets explodes and eventual forms a universe !… 

    A kind of universe where every thing happens by a fixed set of equations !.

    To us BIG BANG is God’s Will. and the einstien’s equations of relativity and newton’s laws of matter and inertia and the Quantam theory of mechanics are just the VERSES of God …
  • Muhammad Azeem This was never said by any scientist mr Siddiqui.It was moment of nothingness.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui how did moment of nothingness all of sudden becomes moment of every thing ?
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui how did a sub atomic particle of “Material” came into existance from no where ?

    can nothingness create material ?
  • Muhammad Azeem Now Your question invites me to ask a question from you.From where the creator came into being.who created him.How?
  • Nadeem Muaaz واہ کیا شک سے لتھڑی دلیل دی عمار صدیقی آپ نے کہ سانئنس نے اس بات کی تصدیق کی ھے کہ ّکوئیٗ تھا۔ جناب یہ ّکوئیٗ کون تھا؟؟؟
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui i m expecting rational treatment rather then hateful @nadeem Muaaz. please avoid mocking each other and rather should deal logic with logic just like @muhammad azeem is doing. i like his way of dialogue and intellectual exchange of arguments
  • Nadeem Muaaz جناب میں نے تو ایک سوال اٹھایا ھے۔ جواب مل جائے تو شکر گزار ھونگا۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Before taking this to another step forward, i would like to add some thing is that contrary to others belief about God, i hold my own opinion. In my opinion our nature of existance has to be redefined. We and God should’t exist in the same sphere of existance. to me, the parable of my existance is like of some one in my dreams. i think God is the creator of Time and space rather then being confined or slave of time and space.
  • Khalid Thathaal Allah created earth and human being to be known, to be praised, to be prayed. Why he created so many galaxies, blackholes, drk matter, dark energy, anti matter etc. What is the use for all this nonsense. wasn’t it ok to just have a sun and the earth. But again, why did he wait many billion years to make the human specie appear who can pray him.
  • Nadeem Muaaz جناب آپ کے بقول سائنس نے جس وجود کی تصدیق کی ھے وہ اسکی ماہئت کیوں نہیں بتاتی اور اسے ّکوئیٗ کے خانے میں کیوں رکھتی ھے؟
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui in my immagination, i can build a universe from negative infinity to possitive infinity.. endless possibilities.. because the material that i create in my immagination has no real value of existance !.. so .. this physical universe we see around is just IMMAGINATION OF GOD. So we should stop finding GOD in the universe, rather understand that Universe is just the immagination of God.
  • Khalid Thathaal I think this is not Allah but Ahur Mazda who created all this.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui @nadeem Muaaz .. you asked a great question. please read my previous comment very carefully. you will get answers
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Khalid bhai.. people here do not want to know our emmotions.. they want logics.. please let me talk.
  • Nadeem Muaaz ” So we should stop finding GOD in the universe, rather understand that Universe is just the immagination of God.”
  • Khalid Thathaal God’s imagination?, does this mean god imagines, he has human quality like may other quality of being happy, being angry etc.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui yes.. let me elaborate it a little further..
  • Khalid Thathaal Why you have to elaborate, like all quranic verses needs some “tafseer”.
  • Nadeem Muaaz عمار صاحب آپ ایک ایسے وجو کو ثابت کرنے کی کوشش میں ھیں جسکا آپ خود ادراک کرنے سے قاصر دکھائی دیتے ھیں۔
  • Khalid Thathaal Don’t you think you are confused and trying to confuse others.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui just like a charachter in a 3D Simulation world or Game, walks, talks, interact with the 3D world around him, and finds the world around him so beautiful using some Artificial intelligence built into it through software coding…. but what would be the compare of this ‘created’ Software based 3D charachter with the Programmer who developed this charachter and developed a world in software for him to live and die ??
  • Nadeem Muaaz اب آپ کی مرضی جو چاھے لکھتے رھئیے۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui yes you are absolutely right.. because if a tiny brain that i have can understand the composition of GOD.. then i think one day i would be able to make a clone of such God having the receipe of it.. so GOD should never come under understanding of a trillion of brains like me.. in order for mankind to bow its ego down.
  • Khalid Thathaal A bedouin from seventh century could understand the god easily, he even rode a donkey to vist god. Now you are trying to complicate god. I think noone would follow your interpretation of god.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Just like a 3D charachter in a 3D movie can never know what is the composition of the movie director..
  • Khalid Thathaal Is your god the same who was visited by muhammad or your god is Ahur Mazda or Yahweh or trinity or ishwar?
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui if ALLAH is the name given to the the GOD who posses the attributes that i just described, then yes ALLAH is my God.
  • Khalid Thathaal How do you know that allah posses all these attributes you want him to have?
  • Muhammad Azeem You have proved God incapable of crossing the boundaries of time and space.If he could have,He could have been Zeus, Rama sis or Christ as they claimed.He may have been Ra.or Rama, or Lord Crishna.But no one is considered God.Means He is incapable of traveling in time and space.But for your information Man has succeeded in travelling in space and he will soon be travelling in time.If you do not believe,consult some theories of scientific theories about time travel.In other words man will not be confined to time and space,whereas God will remain there where He is.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui the only thing God is “incapable” of is to Create God of his like or better. and if some one proves that ALLAH can create some God better or equal to him, then its like saying, there is a full human like population of GODs that is possible.. thus it would be like many GODS above us. the cycle of scientific research will again start.. as who created all these GODS there must be one source.. .. so i will instantly drop my belief in such GOD.. 

    my prideful head will only bow down to some one who was not created by any thing better then it. M ego will submit to only that who is above all !
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui manking gave many names to identify it.. call it ALLAH.. Ram.. Father…. etc.. 

    i dont care.. as long as the God posses the attributes that i just described.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui God is Creator and rest all is Creation..
    Time and Space both are Creations
    So by logic, Creation can not overcome Creator
    therfore the Creator of Time and Space can ask its Creation to be what ever it want it to be.
  • Muhammad Azeem You have proved another incapability of this character.He can not create any character of his like.How he is all powerful?
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Mankind falls into error when it fails to consider “Tiime” and “Space” both are the “Creations” !.. if God can not control Time and space and rather constrained by these, why should we consider such thing as GOD ?? its nothing.. one day or another.. mankind will find ways to beat such thing.. 

    so i am not taking chances.. my rules and criteria are stringent.. God is above all, can create every thing but only he is the Creator.

    infact.. “the Capability of real CREATION” is itself the Creation of the Creator.

    if you make God understandable.. you should really dont call em God ..
  • Khalid Thathaal How do you know if god has those attributes, since he fit in your 3D animation film, so he is a god. What about other attributes like being jealous if some pray to some other god than him, how about him being angry and punishing “his creation”, how about his divine brothel ( al-janna), don’t you consider these attributes necessary as were described by his “discoverer”, aka prophet muhammad.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui see these is the shortcoming of our intellect and language we speak.

    if x can create y which is better then x..
    then you actually mean
    Y is more power ful… because its created more powerful..
    then you should be calling Y as GOD rather then X
    …. this is shortcoming of our understanding and language.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui so you have to define GOD as some thing above which nothing can be created..
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Khalid.. you getting me totally opposite brother. the film maker would be GOD in that case, the whole movie would be the universe, and the 3D charachter i.e. Alladin would be human.
  • Khalid Thathaal But how you know he created all those. Isn’t it that you are merely trying to justify the fantasies of those bronze age people.
  • Khalid Thathaal But why all that fuss, why are you not coming out of your 3D film, why god created all that.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui When you see God as having attributes in religious texts, its because GOD in order to comunicate with his creations, adopts a model which humans can understand !… its like in order to talk to ‘Aladdin’ in the 3D movie, God adopts takes face of some new charachter so that Aladin may communicate to it in limitations of the same time and space
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui you would be mistaken to say that its the only Universe that God created… 

    Modern science theory of Strings [that i ask you to read] would open more arenas into the subject.. where you will know that modern science is now accepting the presence of “Parallel Universes” .. these universes are overlapping… i will go into detail once you read basics of the “Strings theory” on internet.. so that you know what i will tell has some scientific evidence
  • Khalid Thathaal I asked you many question but you want to remain your 3D film, enjoy yourself. I am leaving
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui i m sorry, may be its because i am taking extra caution to be specific and avoid irrational things. please we will carry on this thread. today shd not be the last day of our discussion.. I am sharing my ideas.. not enforcing.. and i m here to learn also.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui I have lot to say but unfortunately english is not my mother tounge and i emphasize in english so that mass audience could benefit from our exchange of ideas.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui conclusively.. Do not bow down to a GOD whom you can understand and comprehend because a true God should be the creator of time and space and how can you understand the creator when even the modern science has not achieved perfection or excellence in every thing?
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui please add me if you guys have more information and want to be more serious. Thanks all for making difference. Loves and peace. Ammar.
  • Jackie Naqvi Ghazali ullu ka pattha kahan ka danishwar tha???? wo to philosophy k peechey mazhab ka danda ley kar umr bhar bhagta raha……
  • Mobarak Haider Gentlemen, this guy Ammar seems to be a mentally disturbed fellow who has been reading introductions on science and theories in digests. These easy guides have struck him hard by confusing him as well as inspiring him. But this school-boy reading of science has also inflated the balloon of his ego; he thinks he has understood total truth and now the universal reality is under his buttocks. So he talks like Zakir Naik, rapid-firing a totally incoherent nonsense, endlessly. By seriously debating with him, you guys are pampering his already sick ego to become even more tragically sick. Don’t you see how he goes on babbling his innocent nonsense without understanding what you ask or explain? The best help for these cases is to ignore them.
  • Sajjad Khalid ان دانشوروں کی آڈئنس وہ لوگ نہیں جو وجود خدا کے مقدمےسے متفق ہیں اور تعداد میں زیادہ ہیں بلکہ وہ لوگ ہیں جو متفق نہیں۔ تو ایسے میں دونوں اپنے اپنے دلائل دیتے ہیں۔ یہ خدا اور لوگوں کے درمیان بحث نہیں بلکہ ماننے اور نہ ماننے والوں کے درمیان ہے۔
  • Mobarak Haider Just ignore him and discuss these serious issues among yourself or with people who listen and make you listen. This fellow is neither a believer nor an agnostic or atheist or scientific minded student of facts. Such a fellow gets psychologically derailed and starts believing that he understands the universe better than the scientists do and knows the Creator better than the prophets did, as if he had been a twin-born with the Creator and a carpenter who carved the multiverse..
  • Zar Qu خدا اپنے وجود کو ثابت کرنے میں کامیاب ہوتا تو اُسے مسلمانوں کے جہاد کی ضرورت نہیں تھی۔۔وہ ایسا خالق ہے کہ اپنے ہونا ثابت کرنے کے لئے اپنی مخلوق کا قتل کروائے جارہا ہے اور پھربھی ثابت نہیں ہورہا ۔اور اُسے یہ دعوِیٰ بھی ہے کہ وہ ستر ماوں سے زیادہ پیار کرتا ہے
  • Zar Qu ماں تو اپنے بچے کی ایک چھینک پر بے قرار ہوجاتی ہے اور خالق کو خون کی ندیاں بہتی ہوئ دیکھر کر بھی اپنے بندے پہ پیار نہیں آرہا
  • Mobarak Haider When Ghazali guillotined philosophy, he was using all kinds of illogical logic, but kept within the respectful parameters of faith. Most believers use Ghazali’s (or St Acquina’s) ‘philosophical’ argument that Allah or the Lord cannot be comprehended by human intelligence. But a believer always follows a greater man than himself, a prophet, an apostle, or an avatar. If someone comes with an independent claim of divine awareness, I will tell him to go try his luck with some gullible fools, not here.
  • Shoro Shahnaz Very genuine, logical and well-thought.
  • Tariq Maan .
    عرش و کرسی پہ کیا خدا ملتا
    آگے بڑھتے تو کچھ پتہ ملتا
    تم کو یہ مل گیا ہے قسمت سے 
    داغ سا ورنہ دوسرا ملتا
  • Akbani MJ Esa bhi to hosakta ha bunde dheet bane huway hain.
  • Mushtaq Ahmad Nice, keep it on!
  • Mansoor Ali insan apne iblag mein khuda ki tashree nahi kar paya is se insan ki ajzi sabit hoti hy na ka khuda ka adam wajud……
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Mobarak Haider : ).. I thought Atheists were men of principles logic and reasoning ! sorry to say, you accuse and blames other a lot while use your brain little to think. I leave the subject to audience. very humbly stating i hold following profile

    B.E. Computer Systems Engineering 
    M.B.A Marketing and Finance
    Sr. Mgr. R&D Wing . PAF
    Mkt. Rep. GIDS (Global Industrial Defence Solutions), Prime Exhibitors of IDEAS 2012
  • Waseem Altaf Why God had to rely upon fallible and highly susceptible humans to communicate His message.The consequence is that not even one single verse of the Quran is agreed upon in respect of its interpretation.Did God not realize that this would happen if everything is left to subjective human analysis.
  • Shafiq Shaikh انسان کا اپنا وجود اور ماھیت ہی اللہ کے وجود اور ابلاغ کا جیتا جاگتا ثبوت ھے اور یہ اللہ کی ہی سنت ہے کہ کوئی بھی چیز بغیر بنائے نہیں بنتی اور پھر ہم اگر اپنے اطراف کائینات کا بصری و شعوری مطالعا کریں تو خود انسان کی جسمانی و روحانی ساخت ہی اللہ کے وجود کا ٹھوس ثنوت مہیا کر دیتی ہے۔ اور جب بات اللہ پر یقین کی آتی ھے تو ھمیں تاریخی حقائق کے تناظر میں یہ دیکھنا ہے کہ تمام الہامی کتب جو کہ انسانی فلاح و بہبود کے مواد پر مشتمل ہیں ،کسی اور مخلوق کے بجائے مخصوص منتخب انسانوں (مرسلین)پر ھی ظاہر کی گئیں، اب ہمارا سب سے پہلا عمل ہمیں ان انسانوں کی مکمل جسمانی و روحانی صحت کا یقین،اور پھر اسی جواز کو پیش نظر رکھتے ہوئے ان کی صداقت پر یقین کرنا پڑیگا،تب ھی ہم اس قابل ہو سکتے ھیں کہ ہم اللہ اور اس کی ارسال کردہ راہ نما کتابوں پر یقین کر سکیں جن میں اللہ کے وجود ،اس کی مھیت اور غایت کا ابلاغ بڑے واضح الفاظ میں موجود ہے۔
  • Waseem Altaf Shafiq Shaikh Saab:Agar insaan ka wajood hi Allah kay wajood ka saboot hai to phir Allah ne issay khata ka putla kyun banaya hai.Apnay jaisa kyun nahi banaya.Agar Allah ka asool ye hai keh koi bhi cheez baghair banaye nahi banti to phir iss asool ko kis ne tora jo Allah baghair banaye ban gaya.
  • Waseem Altaf Aur ye Ilhami kitab’en Arab kay jahil unparh badoo’n per hi kyun utreen.Koi aur behtar jagah nahi thi kay un jahilon ka intekhab kiya gaya.
  • Vassym Imam Bercha ae khuda!! jo kahin nahi mojood.. kya likha ha hamari qismat mai!!
  • Waseem Altaf Baqi in kitabon kay chakar mein parnay ki zaroorat kya hai….aqal aur shoor say kaam lein,zameer sey rehnumai aur science ka tarz-e-fikr ikhtiar kerain aur kamyabi haasil karain.Choorain un baaton ko jo aaj kay daur mein farsoodah aur bay’maani ho chuki hain.
  • Shafiq Shaikh فی زمانہ ہمارئے پاس الہامی کتب میں سے latest versionقرآن ہے،اس میں لفظ ” اللہ” آیا ہے، اس کی definationکریں گے تو شاید آپکو اس میں آپ کے سوال کا جواب مل جائے،
  • Waseem Altaf Allah aik butt ka naam tha jo kaaba mein qabal Islam maujood tha aur Raheem aur rahman uss ki sifaat theen.
  • Waseem Altaf Iss latest version mein say shaitani ayaat kab nikali gayeen. Shayd kuchh bakri bhi kha gaye thi.
  • Waseem Altaf Allah ki definition to shayad Allah khud bhi na ker sakay
  • Shafiq Shaikh آپ کا مطالعہ و علم مجھ سے وسیع ھو سکتاہے،میں تو اس حد تک بات کر سکتا ہوں،جتنامطالعہ و علم میں نے مختلف کتب اور اساتذہ سے حاصل کر سکا ہوں۔
  • Shafiq Shaikh اور آپکی اظلاع کے لیے عرض ہے کہ میں نہ تو کوئی عالم ہوں اور نہ مولوی!!! ایک طالب علم ہوں اور وہی کچھ حاصل کرتا اور سیکھتا ھوں جو میرئے اطراف موجود لوگ،معاشرہ اور وسائل مجھے سکھا رہے ہیں،
  • Mobarak Haider Dear Believer, actually faith (eemaan-bil-ghaib) needs no knowledge. Animals have deeper Eeman; they follow natural law more faithfully. Trees have even more; they stand and toss their heads in praise of Allah. Stones are even more faithful; they do not even even multiply, so happy with their Allah. So do not use your mind if you want to keep your faith. But if you want to make the world better for your coming generations you have to think, understand the laws and use them without caring for blind stories.
  • Mirza Hassan the point i never understand how some one know he is right and others are wrong or question god or question there boss or correct themself on there expense lol
  • Mobarak Haider Mirza Hassan is so fond of LOL. Great fellow.
  • Shafiq Shaikh مبارک حیدر صاحب، وسیم صاحب نے مجھے مخاطب کر کے سوال کیا تھا، میں نے اپنی سمجھ کے مطابق انہیں explainکرنے کی سعی کی ھے،
  • Mobarak Haider If latest is the best and truest, then go to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadiaan (not Mirza Hassan of Texas).
  • Kuku Bird there is no god.
    la ilaha.
  • Mafaat Raza hazrat iqbaal khuda ka wajood nahi beyaan kartay rahay sarasar galat baat ha Khuda to iqbaal ka ik character tha jasa k iblees tha ik shair k han to characters hi paye jatay han sub istaaray hotay han wo kici ka wajood beyaan nahi karta bus her character ki apni khoobian hoti han jasay natshay ka supermaan iqbaal ka mard-e-momin shaheen wagara dakh lain
  • Kiran Khan flsfi ki bahas k andr khuda milta nhi dor ko suljhaa rha ha or sira milta nhi
  • Ikramul Haq In ayat 63 of Surat Al-Furqan, it is ordained: “And the obedient of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth humbly, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace”. This concept is further elaborated: When those who accede to obeying Ar-Rehman {Allah] are empowered on this earth, their state does not become a symbol of oppression and exploitation. They even walk gently and live in harmony and peace. And they also provide peace and tranquillity to other people (3:138; 31:17-18; 22:41). They do so to the extent that even when they come across people who personify the characteristics of Jahlia, such as ignorance, bigotry, enmity, fierceness, wickedness, excitability, in return they show them true human qualities of peace, open tenderheartedness, leniency and generosity.
  • Qamar Abbas To understand this hectic topic, we must read Russell’s book “Why I am not a Christian?”. Then, we will be, of course, able to discuss on this deeply.
  • Amjad Hussain Someone should also read “Why I Am Not a Muslim”, a book written by Ibn Warraq, is a critique of Islam and the Qur’an.
  • Shakeel Azeez Chauhan Learning proces is good ; there is no god or there is ! was a bit childish debate. Its like saying there is no sun or there is ! discovering is hard & chatting very easy.
    God is important but you are more important ! U have the choice to believe or disbelieve or throw the whole concept in trash , so its U ! U need to focus on U , not the god ! hahaha……………
    Who is R U ?? No one can answer it but U !! So Im leaving U with U !!! hahaha………………. 
    Ur concerned with outer knowing , without knowing who is the one trying to know ? Who is hiding inside U ???
    God is too far away ! Ur inside is too near !! too near to be missed by all !! hahaha………………..
    Who the hell R U ET ??? hah
  • Julez Couture Qamae Abbas why not read “Why I am not a Muslim” by Dawkins.
  • Qamar Abbas Excellent, Excellent, how much great idea that is! I, really, appreciate your opinion, dear Julez Couture,
  • Sibghat Wyne Ab ye Atheists aur Dawkins jesey log Khuda ke khilaaf safhon ke sfhey siah kar ke inssan ka us se ziada waqt barbad karen ge jitna ke Khuda ko man’ney waley Juhlaa’ ne kia.
  • Amjad Hussain Why I Am Not a Muslim, a book written by Ibn Warraq.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Rights of WOMEN in ISLAM
    One will find that ISLAM is actually a Feminist Religion – ONLY REFERENCES NO CRAP IN THIS ARTICLE.

    https://bittertruthpk.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/status-of-women-in-islam-quick-refrences/

    bittertruthpk.wordpress.com

    MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL “O Mankind, keep your duty to your Lord who created you…See More
  • Sibghat Wyne Oye kafiro na tum ne Khuda chora he aur na wo tumhe chor raha he, us Khuda ne tumhari yehi saza likh rakhi he ke tum usi ka zikar kartey raho taa hayaat. Yehi hukm Richard Dawkins ke liey bhi he.
  • Adeem Ashraf lajawab tehreer! kamal kardya!
  • Zulfiqar Tareen if there were a god, he would not need the help of iqbal, ghazali and others to prove his existance.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Har ugny vala darakht, har ugny vala patta, har tootny vala sitara, har naya any vala din, dil ki har dharkan, ankh ki har basarat, peyda hony vala har bucha, barasny vala har qatra, every orbiting electron, every orbiting galaxy, every new matter thats gets created in the universe……….

    is the contineous Marketing of God !

    only men of understanding would get it.
  • Amjad Hussain A man of understanding like you Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui will understand rest are dumb.
  • Julez Couture www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58
    By freedom4expression · 
    1 min · 
    632,298 views · 
    Added 2006-08-13

    After watching this, you will no longer be able to claim ignorance of Islam. QURAN 4:34 – “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to …

    The Koran (Quran) allows men to beat their wifes, and here are the rules. After…See More
  • Julez Couture Bukhari (72:715) – “Aisha said, ‘I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'” This is Muhammad’s own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui PLEASE GET A HABIT DO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH BEFORE CUT PASTING HATE PROPAGANDA 

    This is the hadith Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715: Narrated ‘Ikrima: Rifa’a divorced his wife whereupon ‘AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. ‘Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Apostle came, ‘Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!” When ‘AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, “By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this,” holding and showing the fringe of her garment, ‘Abdur-Rahman said, “By Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa’a.” Allah’s Apostle said, to her, “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa’a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.” Then the Prophet saw two boys with ‘Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), “Are these your sons?” On that ‘AbdurRahman said, “Yes.” The Prophet said, “You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,”
    19 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui n the above Hadith, there are few points to notice and mention:

    1- The man failed to follow Noble Verse 4:34 which was sent by Allah Almighty to protect women from harmfull men.

    2- The woman was trying to get back with her first husband. In Islam, if a woman gets divorced or divorces herself from her husband through the Islamic court by “Khala'”, then the only way she can get back with her husband, or her husband gets back to her is by HER MARRYING ANOTHER PERSON, HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH HIM, AND THEN GET A DIVORCE FROM HIM. This is to guarantee that divorce would not be a joke among Muslims.

    3- The woman was claiming that her second husband was sexually no good. The husband disputed that, and brought his two sons from another marriage as a proof that he can perform sex. The Prophet peace be upon him then told the woman “by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow”.

    4- Aisha’s opinion about the woman’s bruise doesn’t prove or disprove anything. She got angry because she saw another woman badly beaten, which is perfectly fine and acceptable. But her emotions and opinions are not Islamic Verdicts!

    Many authentic hadith proof that Islam liberated women and made them free. See hadith Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138 & 2139.

    In ‘Sahih Muslim, Book 018, Number 4251’ we see that a woman in islam is even allowed to take from her husband’s property without his knowledge if he falls below this basic level of supporting her. Also Umar Ibn khattab told the prophet that ‘women had the upperhand over men in Medina in’ in Sahih Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 119′ , the prophet showed a smile after hearing this.

    This clearly proofs that ayesha’s(ra) reaction was based on emotions, which is normal and perfectly fine. We also have to notice that in pre-islamic (before islam) time women were depressed by the arabs, Islam came to liberate those women and to give them many rights. Unfortunately some muslim men (still today) fail to follow the true message of Islam, instead of this they follow their evil (pagan) cultural practices and customs! , this has nothing to do with Islam! Islam honours women and clearly fobids the cruel beating of wives!

    Secondly the hadith tells only one part of the incident, it doesn’t mention anything about the decision made by the prophet after this incident , simply because only one part of the story is known and written down. So it’s rediculous to say that Islam and the prophet allowed wife beating, as a matter of fact the opposite is true!

    Read more:http://www.systemoflife.com/answering-islamophobes/abul-kasem/223-muhammad-recommended-wife-beating-and-also-beat-wife-ayesha#ixzz2EaXxya5I

    www.systemoflife.com

    Many authentic hadith proof that Islam liberated women and made them free. Wife…See More
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui A hadith is not a complete story !

    Stop taking parts and pieces from the history and twisting it to favor your opinion.
  • Julez Couture Ammar it is not taking bits and peices. The fact is there is ABSOLUTETLY no excuse to degrade a woman by hitting her and it does NOT matter what the context of the story is.
  • Julez Couture A hadith is not a complete story !
    Then what is. Sayings of Mirza Qadianni.
  • Julez Couture You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,” I see no where Mohd condemming the husband for hitting his wife.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui The women reason of accusing her husband was proved wrong “He is impotent and can not satisfy me” ! 

    Not all the women are RIGHT !
    Not all the men are RIGHTEOUS !

    Go to any court and find out how many times women are proved guilty !
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui If the woman first accusation was a lie, then the beating spot she showed could also be a lie !

    The person who narrated hadith did’t tell further what did the Prophet announce later on this case ! when did that incident happen ! during initial period of ISLAM where the quaran was still in revealation or later !
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiquihttp://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/7984763/Woman-convicted-of-wilfully-choking-baby

    www.stuff.co.nz

    A West Auckland mum has been convicted of suffocating her newborn baby at least four times before crying for help to resuscitate her.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui can not comment on video you posted. youtube is ban in Pakistan.
  • Julez Couture Ammar sorry I do not agree with any of your irrational aguments by deviating from the subject. I do not see you making any comment on what the Quran had to say about hitting women. I love how its all about your interpretation and what could or should have happened.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui [Further]

    AS A DOCTOR I ANALYSED THIS HADITH, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN HOME OF AISHA R.A. & JANNATUL BAQI IS QUITE LONG.

    NOW SEE THE BOLD PART OF HADITH IN BLUE,

    AS AISHA R.A WAS AFRAID THAT PROPHET (peace be upon him) WILL COME TO KNOW SHE WAS FALLOWING HER, SO IN ORDER TO AVOID THIS SHE CAME RUNNING BACK TO HOME,

    IT IS NATURAL PHYSIOLOGICAL PHENOMENON WHEN A PERSON RUNS FOR A DISTANCE MORE THAN 100 meters, BODY RESPONDS WITH HYPERVENTILATION.

    PERSONS BREATHS FAST & EVEN HEART RATE INCREASES, BLOOD PRESSURE INCREASES, DURING SUCH SITUATION IF YOU GIVE SLIGHT PUSH ON CHEST PERSON WILL FEEL PAIN. YOU CAN DO THIS ON YOURSELF ALSO TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS,IN ABOVE HADITH PROPHET SAAS JUST GIVE A PUSH TO AISHA R.A & SHE FELT PAIN …..(end of his saying)

    Moreover

    Aaishah (Radhiallahu ‘Anha) herself said: Allaah’s Messenger (Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman.” [Recorded by Musnad Ishaq bin Rawahiya no: 698, Ibn Maajah Kitab al Nikah hadeeth no: 1984 Al-Albaanee said it is Saheeh.]

    .

    Source of Musnad Ishaq:http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=101&hid=698&pid=26710

    Source of Ibne Majah:http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=653&BookID=35&PID=3687

    This clears all the things Alhumdulillah.

    .

    Lastly see beautiful Explanation by brother Kevin Abdullah here:http://www.quransearch.com/karim/mistranslations_of_hadiths.htm

    .

    He made many points in his article, one is, the term used in the hadith is: Lahada.

    Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that: The word “lahada” according to the lexicographers means, “to push” (dafa’a).(End quote for details see his full article)

    So it is clear Prophet Peace be upon him never beat his wives nor any other woman.

    Read more:http://www.systemoflife.com/answering-islamophobes/abul-kasem/223-muhammad-recommended-wife-beating-and-also-beat-wife-ayesha#ixzz2EalGQ45o

    www.islamweb.net

    ‎[ تخريج ] [ شواهد ] [ أطراف ] [ الأسانيد ] رقم الحديث: 698 (حديث مرفوع) ، ، قَالا : ، ، ، قَالَتْ : ” .
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Please explain..

    Aaishah (Radhiallahu ‘Anha) herself said: Allaah’s Messenger (Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman.” [Recorded by Musnad Ishaq bin Rawahiya no: 698, Ibn Maajah Kitab al Nikah hadeeth no: 1984 Al-Albaanee said it is Saheeh.]

    I am sorry AISHA r.a. is not standing by your side. She is with our side.

    YOU ARE TRUSTING ON ONE HADITH AND NOT ANOTHER?

    : )
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Islamic ruling on wife beating..

    “…Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them…(The Noble Quran, 2:231)”

    “If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)”

    Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri: “I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)”

    Narrated Mu’awiyah ibn Haydah: “I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138)”

    Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: “He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)”

    “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)”
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui keeping in light all the verses and hadiths, it gets clear to a man of understanding that the propaganda and reality are two different things.
  • Julez Couture Ammar let me reiterate myself I am talking about this verse in the Quran. Qur’an (4:34) – “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Wrong translation !

    (4:34) […]as for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui The word in Arabic is “Adrabu” in the origional text

    In Arabic a word has many meanings

    Some its is used to beat and other time to “Separate”.
  • Julez Couture Ammar then you should tell the people who have translated the Quran. I tend to believe the most popular translation. And you missed the first part of the verse. What does your translation say about that.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui and if you are asking about the part..

    “”Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property”

    then i will ask

    Why the cricket and football matches of men and women are separate ??

    Why don’t the male team of soccer versus female team of soccer?

    Why not Male vs Female Wrestling Match?

    Why not a single City or Country in the whole world exclusively run by Women?
  • Julez Couture Ammar useless conversation. I am not here to prove anything to you. If your religion teaches you that you are superior than women. I am fine with that.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui lol…. you are answerless.. !
  • Julez Couture Yes I am answerless to irrational thinking.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui The answer given in the same VERSE !

    Men are only one step ahead of women because they have to earn money and women have to enjoy that money in shopping and luxories ! and men have to give share to them in their Inheritence

    IN OTHER WORDS… 

    WOMEN ARE FAR AHEAD THEN MEN !

    MEN ARE BOUND TO DO HARD WORK.. WHILE WOMEN HAVE BEEN MADE THE QUEEN OF THE WORLD ENJOYING LIFE AND ENJOYING BEAUTIFUL MOMENTS WITH KIDS
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Julez.. please.. don’t be egoistic. be RATIONAL.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Don’t be fooled by the seemingly Beaitiful but empty claims of the WESTern modern societies.

    90,000 RAPES AND SEXUAL VIOLENT CRIME AGAINST WOMEN IN USA IN 2008 ALONE !

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

    en.wikipedia.org

    Statistics on rape and sexual assault are commonly available in advanced countri…See More
  • Julez Couture Yes Ammar, you make money for your women so that they can have luxuries.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Thanks to ALLAH me and my wife are very happily living. We are going to have a baby girl in a month. I spend all my money in bringing happiness to my wife. She is the queen of my home. She manages all the household affairs, while i go to office, only to come back and go out to shopping with her.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui she is 23 i am 30.. and she loves me the most in the whole world. My mother and father also married at same age, and since then, they have loved each other.. and i see thousands of families around living in harmony and enjoying the Family System of ISLAM.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui btw not just wife, its my duty to support and service my mother and father. we all live together under a roof. Both my parents are diabetic. I take extra care of them. When ever we go out, we took mum with us, so that she may not feel alone. Its my duty to take care of her medicine timings. i can relocate to islamabad (paksitan’s capital) for better future prospects, or move abroad but not, because my prophet said

    “Paradise lies under the feets of your mothers”

    The more i service her and take care of her, the more i am pleasing my LORD and the better the reward i expect in the hereafter.”
  • Nadeem Muaaz یعنی آپکے نزدیک والدین کی خوشنودی کی بجائے خدا کی خوشنودی اصل شے ھے اور اس معاملے میں آپکا ضمیر آپکو کچھ بتانے کے قابل نہیں ھے۔
    17 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Nadeem Muaaz کیا ماں کے دل میں اولاد کی محبت پیدا کرنے کے لئے ضروری ھے کہ خدا اسے بتائے کہ تم اپنے بچے سے پیار کرو؟
    17 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Just like a Nation needs a Constitution to have a check and balance on itself, therefore the same way, Religious Book is a constitution or Law compiled for many reasons

    1. Self Check and Balance
    2. General Awareness for Public
    3. Continuous Reminder
    4. Problem Solving and Jurisdiction
  • Julez Couture Ammar I wish you all the best in your life. Down the road in life you will find everything is not so black and white. People get sick, people betray their partners, people die. True happiness is being able to follow your dreams. what family system are you talking about in Islam by restricting women. Give women their freedom and then talk to me about the family system. I have lived in Pakistan for most of my life and worked with the most desperate and poor women. Let me remind you Ammar not everybody comes from a privelged background. The West that you are condemning has a legal system to protect women like no Islamic country can even dream of. Grow up Ammar and get out of your small little world that you have build around yourself.
    17 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Nadeem Muaaz وہ جس کا دعویٰ ھے کہ وہ انسان سے ستر ماؤں سے زیادہ محبت کرتا ھے اسکے سامنے (اگر وہ واقعی ھے تو) ھر روز ھزاروں بچے تڑپتے تڑپتے تڑپتے مر جاتے ھیں اور وہ تمام محبت اور طاقت کے دعووں کے باوجود تماشائی بنا دیکھتا رھتا ھے اور وہ تو کبھی ایک ماں کے عشر عشیر بھی تڑپنے کا ثبوت فراہم نہیں کرتا۔ توبہ توبہ کیتنا ظالم اور بے حس خدا ھے آپ لوگوں کا۔
    17 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui I see the Legal System in working
    90,000 rapes !

    Nadeem Muaaz 

    Jules has answered you.

    NOT all people are born same.. not all of them have equal conciousness about every thing in life.
  • Nadeem Muaaz سر جی بونگیاں نہ ماریں پلیز!!!!
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui God has given you all the resources to develop systems for betterment of mankind. God loves you more then the combined love of 70 of your mothers, and that is why he does not ask you to pay WATER TAXES, OXYGEN TAXES, LIFE TAX, HAPPINESS TAX. He has made whole world for you but want you to Overcome Your desires and think about the world

    God has given OBAMA and NATO a chance to spend more on feeding poor humans in Africa and lesser on Space Exploration and Development of Hydrogen Bombs. 

    If God care for every one every time and all the time, where will you show your own good and bad?

    This is a placce of our exammination not God’s !
  • Ele Mentary کسی کو قید کر کے ،ذہنی آزادی سلب کر کے ،مفلوج کر کے کچھ ضرورتوں کا خیال کر بھی لیا تو کیا توپ چلا لی
    17 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Nadeem .. you seems to talk more and understand less.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Pakistan is not example of the Ideal Islamic World 

    Islam has given world a model closer to perfection in the days of Mohammed pbuh and Omer.

    Omer said.. 

    “by God if even a dog died of hunger or thirst at the fatherst border of my Khilafa, then i will be held responsible and accountable for it at day of judgement”
  • Saeed Ibrahim جناب ھم نے کونسا منع کیا ھے خدا کو ٹیکس لگانے سے۔ مگر وہ پہلے یہ دنیا چلانا تو سیکھ لے۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui The Result of so called ‘Zehni Azadi”

    90,000 Rapes in USA in a single year.. [2008]

    !!
  • Nadeem Muaaz اور کبھی یہ بھی ریسرچ کی کہ پاکستان میں روزانہ کیتنی عورتیں اور لونڈے ریپ ھوتے ھیں؟ ھم تو وہ ھیں جو خود اپنی بیویوں کو بھی ریپ ھی کرتے ھیں۔
    17 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Nadeem Muaaz ھر مسجد میں کوئی نہ کوئی لونڈے باز ملا موجود ھے۔
    17 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Nadeem Muaaz talk with references. If i start making claims like “Every man and woman in west is adulterious” and every Atheist is a moron ! then i should backed it by some research or data. Please do not engage in to a useless talk. 

    I don’t think you have visited every home or mosque but i think you have spoken of yourself
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui When the Eienstien of 21st century 
    Dr. Michu Kaku believes in God 
    then you should believe in him if you really CLAIM TO BELIEVE IN SCIENCE

    “Music is the voice of God traveling through ten-dimensional hyperspace.” 
    ― Michio Kaku
  • Nadeem Muaaz ھا ھا ھا
  • Harris Clement GOD and the concept of GOD was the greatest intellectual advancement of HUMANS ! Some are now looking for GOD-PARTICLE !
  • Ele Mentary ammar sahib zehni azadi se rape kay statistics ka kia taaluq. It means for me to be free to choose whatever i deem fit for my life. You maulvis dont allow that.
    17 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Einstien who know the universe more then you

    I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.

    Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.

    My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.

    Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

    The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

    There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.

    The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

    The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.

    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

    Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

    When the solution is simple, God is answering.

    God does not play dice with the universe.

    God is subtle but he is not malicious.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui “I am free to choose for myself”

    This is the most stupid claim every made. Sorry.

    the correct phrase is

    “I am free to choose for myself what ever is not harmful to others” !

    who decides what is harmful to others ????

    A written text called constitution ?
    A book claim to be from GOD ??
    A Man made Laws ??
    Divine Laws?

    Or

    every one should has his own sets of laws?????
  • Julez Couture Ammar has deviated from the subject again. Ammar everything is not all about you and your interpretation of life and what others want.
  • Ele Mentary reason and rationality.definitely not divine law which is different for different religion of course.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui What if you choose to have sex with your girl friend right on the midst of the road ???????

    is it you to decide its harmful ??

    u will certainly say. NO.. it is.. i am not physicaly hurting any one..

    but your laws of your country will tell if

    they want the immature children to see or not.. 

    IF YOU AGREE THAT MANKIND SHOULD HAVE A SET OF LAWS.. 

    then you are actually disclamining that

    “I am free to choose for myself” !!
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui @Julez Couture.. be responsible for your words.
    We are deviated because the questions raised by the audience made us do so.
  • Ele Mentary No reasonable or sensible man will do that . Make rationality your guide not divine scriptures.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiquihttp://haryanaabtak.com/sex-on-the-middle-of-the-street

    haryanaabtak.com

    The open air sex act, which was lasted for 10 minutes, was witnessed and capture…See More
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui If all men were reasonable and rational they would have decided to submit their weapons rather then throwing nuclear bomb to kill a million people at once !
  • Ele Mentary this is not standard practice just aberration. you would want to stone them to death ,we would simply fine them.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui If all men were reasonable and sensible, there would not be 90,000 rapes happening in the United States [2008, Google it]
  • Julez Couture Ammar now you are really losing it.
  • Nadeem Muaaz یارا یہ عجیب سنکی اور بیمار ذہن کا انسان ھے عمار صدیقی۔ اسے بالکل شرم نہیں آتی۔ اپنے طالبان دکھائی نہیں دیتے اور چلے ھیں یوروپ پر تنقید کرنے۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui This is the reason of your fines that 
    90.000 RAPES ARE HAPPENING !

    I m not here to win or loose but if you insist, then you sound some one, who has been answered to all of the issues you raised, but not accepting the truth.
  • Ele Mentary exactly 90000 killings in the name of islam in pakistan but hazrat is worried about rapes in US.
    16 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Taliban have been attacked by the U.S. with the help of NATO ALLIEDS and yet they are totally unsucessful in finishing them. This is the fine example of how the power and might becomes useless when its about aggression on other countries where they are not welcomed.
  • Julez Couture changing the subject again
  • Nadeem Muaaz بھئی بہت ھی بے غیرت شخص ھے یہ۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui 120,000 Civillians death 

    JUST BECAUSE OF USA INVASION IN IRAQ
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiquihttp://www.iraqbodycount.org/

    www.iraqbodycount.org

    Iraq Body Count is an ongoing human security project which maintains and updates…See More
  • Nadeem Muaaz حیرت ھے کہ یہ کس قدر ڈھٹائی سے دنیا کی گھٹیا ترین قوم کا دفاع کرنے پر تلا ھے۔
  • Ele Mentary how does that prove that your kinked thinking is right.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui nadeem… now you are calling me “BeyGherat” !
    i wonder how can you use the term “Gherat” when this term is only coined by the Religion !
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui nadeem says.. i m defending the worst nation of this world. rather. i am providing facts from the western side. i did’t know atheists are that dumb
  • Nadeem Muaaz اسی لئے جناب کے لئے استعمال کی ھے
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui that means GHERAT does not exists in ATHEISTS !
  • Nadeem Muaaz بابا جی جاؤ سوں جاؤ، ھور دماغ نہ کھاؤ۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui nadeem says
    “oldman go to sleep and stop consuming brain cells”
    [Translated it for non-urdu readers]

    you guys are questioning and i m providing answers with logics and reasoning. 

    Seems like you don;t appreciate the difference of opinion and just want to spread hatred and do not want to understand clarifications

    … 

    Its you who are suppressing the Rational Thinking and Reasoning. Please improve yourselves. Facebook posts are for sharing knowledge and exchange of ideas rather then trying to suppress people through hatred and taunts.

    Please Improve yourselves and practice what you preach.

    Peace to all.
    GOD is Great.
  • Julez Couture See Ammar what you have done. We started from rights of women in Islam and you have ended it by explaining about Ghart. This what people like you do, create chaos to confuse matters more.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui lol.. your science requires centuries of research and millions of men to work to bring results which only create more questions then gives more answers.

    and you think GOD is explained in few words and without examples and his work to be explained in total isolation?

    that reflects narrowness of your mind. 

    Please read the Einstien and Dr. michu kaku quotes

    Ammar
  • Julez Couture Ammar don’t forget I am a Christian and I beleive in God but not in the same God as yours.
    16 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Nadeem MuaazWrote

    “بھئی بہت ھی بے غیرت شخص ھے یہ۔

    [Brother , he is such a BEYGHERAT]

    it was nadeem who brought the concept of Gherat in the discussion

    Julez… be Sincere to yourself
  • Julez Couture Ammar thanks for your mushrava. Also dont forget I like to have the last word.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Creator Creates the Life and Death
    Creator can not be overcome by its own creation
    Peace.
    AMMAR

    Have your last words of egos with defeat of inner conciousness.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Please have moral courage to apologize to yourself for false accusing me of

    ” you have ended it by explaining about Ghart. This what people like you do, create chaos to confuse matters more.”

    while it was initiated by Nadeem 

    “”بھئی بہت ھی بے غیرت شخص ھے یہ۔”

    finally leaving .
    Peace to every one.
    Ammar. Bye.
  • Julez Couture peace to you too.
  • Sibghat Wyne This is an illogical sentence. Fallacious.
  • Nadeem Muaaz محترم وائیں صاحب، میں نے یہی عرض کیا کہ جب اقبال اور غزالی اپنی طویل تحریروں کے ذریعے اپنے مخاطبین کو خدا کے وجود اور ماہیت کے بارے میں سمجھانے کی کوشش کرتے ھیں تو بالوسطہ طور پر وہ یہ ثابت کررہے ھوتے ھیں کہ خدا الہامی کتب میں اپنے بیانات سے انسانوں کو اپنے وجود کے بارے میں کنونس کرنے میں ناکام رھا ھے۔ میں نے بالکل نہیں کہا کہ وہ خدا کو اسکے وجود کی ماہیت سمجھارہے ھیں۔ معلوم نہیں اتنی سیدھی اور سادہ تحریر سے آپ نے منطقی مغالطہ کیسے دریافت کرلیا؟ اگر یہ آپ نے خود ہی اس تحریر کے ذمے لگا دیا ھے تو میں کیا کرسکتا ھوں۔
    13 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Sibghat Wyne منطقی مغالطہ تو پھر بھی رہتا ہے۔
    ۱۔ ابلاغ کرنے میں ناکام۔ کس سے؟ رسول سے؟ مگر رسول نے تواپنے طور پر ابلاغ کیا۔ اقبال اور غزالی سے؟ مگر ان لوگوں کا خیال اس کے برعکس ہے، وہ سمجھتے ہیں کہ انہوں نے خدا کو سمجھ لیا ہے۔ اب وہ عام لوگوں کو بھی ابلاغ کروا رہے ہیں؛ عام لوگوں سے؟ وہ تو مان رہے ہیں؛ ہم جیسے لوگوں سے؟ تو ہم سے تو اس نے بلا واسطہ ابلاغ کیا ہی نہیں۔ 
    ۲۔چونکہ اقبال اور غزالی وغیرہ نے ایک بات کی تشریح کرنے کی کوشش کی، لہٰذا انہوں نے اس کا ابلاغ نہ کیا ہے۔ مطلب یہ کہ ابلاغ کو مطلق ابلاغ کہا گیا ہے یہاں، جس کی آگے تشریح نہیں کی جا سکتی۔ 
    دوسری طرف یہ کہ اگر تشریح کی گئی ہے تو جس کی تشریح کی جائے اس کی ابلاغ کرنے کی صلاحیت پر شبہ کرنا کیسے منطقی ہے؟
  • Sibghat Wyne ویسے مجھے یہ معلوم نہ تھا کہ یہ آپ کے الفاظ ہیں۔ اپنے چند الفاظ واپس لیتے ہوئے بحث کو جاری رکھتا ہوں۔
  • Sibghat Wyne اور آپ کی یہ بات اگر بالکل ٹھیک بھی ثابت ہو جائے تو بھی اقبال، غزالی وغیرہ کی حد تک ٹھیک ہے کہ ’’وہ یہ سمجھتے ہیں کہ خدا ناکام رہا ہے‘‘ وگرنہ وہ (شاید) کامیاب ہے۔
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Even the Atheists are talking about God..

    : ) and they claim that God is has been unsuccessful !

    The most intellectual of them ,, Einstien, Michu Kaku, .. every one talked about God…..See More

    en.wikipedia.org

    The table above is compiled from the relevant Wikipedia pages listing Religions

    by Country. Although figures are an approximation there are many sources. Please see individual pages (Linked in Table) for details.
  • Amjad Hussain When someone say God is unsuccessful it means that he believes that there is no God and so called man made God of Jews, Christians, Muslims and Hindus, etc,,,, books are not working.
  • Ammar Ahmed Siddiqui Christianity 32%
    Islam 24%
    Hinduism 16%
    Total= 72% believe in GOD !
    remaining 28% are those who are fully aware of the God’s Message (through Quran, Bible, …) but chose not to accept !

    that means 100% know who is GOD, what are the different definitions of God (Through Bible Quran…) and they absolutely know that since the first man on earth, God has been sending messengers and prophets who have always provoked thinking among the mankind regarding the God and responsibilities of Creation towards its one true Creator.

    ISLAM’S Standing..

    ALL THE PROPHETS MESSENGERS CAME WITH THE SAME MESSAGE
    THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE !

    it were people who altered and played with the words for their own favor.

    proof:

    Concept of oneness of God is present in the religious texts of all the major religions; which clearly advocates that the God and religion was ONE, but people later, altered it for their own favors. 

    1. Priests and Rabbis claimed that since they are scholars so inorder to understand God mankind must follow them ! thus they created barriers between mankind and God.

    2.Priests and Rabbis said since they are more closer to God and they engage in worship on behalf of the men, therefore they will convince God to forgive their sins, and they should be paid money on behalf of their religious services. thus to fooled men

    CONCEPT OF ONE GOD IN RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURES
    http://www.unification.net/ws/theme002.htm